Pleasure and Pain - Latest Comments in I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

openminded — Fri, 15 May 2009 19:21:55 -0000

Ever pick up Maxim magazine? It's topical for men's issues. Same concept. Not a limitation. Just topical relevance.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

freestyles — Sat, 09 May 2009 10:54:15 -0000

Hey Matthew, I liked the way you reacted to this post!

Emma

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

whitneyhess — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:10:28 -0000

Gingerbread Person? Come on. If the cookie looks like a man, why make it genderless? Then if you're so inclined, make cookies that look like women, too :) I tend to assign most inanimate objects with a male pronoun, but that's just me and it's usually to be playful. I know most people assign the female pronoun, especially men, and it doesn't offend me in the least.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

lavannamartin — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:11:23 -0000

How do you feel about Gingerbread Men?

Let's turn this argument on its head - I went into a bakery here in Austin many years ago, and asked for said item, and was told that it was a "Gingerbread Person"!

As an aside, noticed that you're coming to Austin. You need to stop by my and see my friends at Conjunctured, our local coworking place.

Thank you,

Lavanna

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Lucius Kwok — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:14:07 -0000

There are two items which I think will help illuminate the discussion:

1. The article "HOWTO Encourage Women in Linux"
2. Dr. Ellen Spertus's 1991 paper "Why are There so Few Female Computer Scientists?"

(Use Google to find copies of both.)

While much has gotten better in the past 17 years, much bias remains. The technical conferences I go to tend to be overwhelmingly male. The above articles provide the background to explain why a "womens" conference might still be justified.

Having a conference that focuses on women is still needed because such bias still exists. Whether you choose to participate or not is your choice, but like race issues, the problems still exists even if we don't talk about them.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

whitneyhess — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 12:07:29 -0000

That's a wonderful quote. Thank you for sharing it.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

zeldman — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:29:24 -0000

In college, I attended a lecture given by playwright Edward Albee ("Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf").

During the Q&A, a young man in the audience said, "You're one of the most famous gay playwrights in the world, yet your plays don't deal with gay issues."

Albee said, "I don't think of myself as a gay playwright. I think of myself as a playwright."

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

RoboJenny — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:12:52 -0000

Hey Whitney,

You may recognize me as your former housemate from Beeler house. I found you via Twitter.

[I was one of 30 women in a freshman class of 135. (The graduating class before I got there had more Daves than women — I shit you not.) Boys frequently came by my dorm room to see if I needed help with the homework. Not because I asked them, but because they assumed I needed it. They were wrong.]

Don't I know it, having been from that same very freshman class as you. I had a male friend accuse me of having finished my homework assignments quicker than him only by batting my eyes at guys to do it for me, when I had completed them on my own. I was so mad that I made him sit in the room while I worked on the next assignment. I finished it in just a few hours. He then took the next two days to finish the same assignment and received the same score as I did.

[The thing I’m struggling with is the woman qualifier. Is a woman blogger someone who writes about women’s issues, or simply someone who has a vagina?]
[I’ve asked myself that same question. Do I sound different in the way that I write? Do I bring a female perspective to design and usability? Do I evaluate like a girl?]

I struggle with this as well. While I agree with you on the first point, for the second point I do think I bring a different perspective as a female. My blog focuses on technology from the point of a female software professional. In almost every professional situation I've been in, I have been the only female programmer. At my last code review, I received compliments on my coding style, commenting, and efficiency. The only negative remark I had was on my development environment; I was told I have too many colors in my syntax highlighting, which looks very feminine. You can tell I am a female developer by my choice in tech accessories, the stickers on my Macbook Air, my white iPhone, etc. I do like to emphasize that I'm a female. Just as you were stating, males assume females are not good programmers simply because they're female. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm female. I don't want to be one of those people who hides behind their first initial when writing so people don't automatically discredit them for having a female name.

[I never had an interest in joining a sorority, never belonged to Hillel or Women@SCS.]

I'm a sorority girl (Alpha Chi Omega), but I found this more of a way to interact socially with females than as a statement of any sort. As you've pointed out, most of our class was male. I was tired of complaining about boy troubles to males (who would volunteer to beat them up, but that's about it). Women@SCS, on the other hand, I actively disapproved of; advising females to take easier classes to get better grades is completely backwards.

I think where I differ from you is that I like organizations that encourage both males and females to realize that all the negative societal beliefs of inferior females in science and technology are not true, while organizations that are created under the assumption that females are weaker and need to bond together to become stronger and help each other reach the potential of men are completely bollocks (whereas it seems that you disapprove of both types of organizations).

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Charles Hope — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:43:33 -0000

This is a very lucid post. Much respect! Unfortunately, so much ignorance and self-contradiction in the comments.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Samantha — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:23:28 -0000

I did not know Germany was that far behind us in women's equality. I'm not sure if it's the schools I chose, or the type of work I do, but I still haven't felt that limted by my femaleness. Instead I often feel pushed back because I look much younger than I am. People are often surprised by my age and once the reveal is made, their attitude toward me changes and suddenly they treat me as a genius (that's an exaggeration) instead of a naive novice. It's like they suddenly start listening when I'm over 30 instead of under 25.

So for me, it's an agism issue. I'm still not set on wearing suits to look older but wondering if that would help solve the problem or if I should just wear a nametag that says, "Samantha - 32".

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

christina — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:20:58 -0000

separate is never equal.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Lorrianne Nault — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:18:57 -0000

Hi Whitney! Great post and some well-thought out responses. Sorry I'm so late in the game for adding my 2 cents. I must say that five years ago
I would have written a very different response.

I grew up with five very strong-willed sisters and a dad that was very adamant about us being very capable of doing whatever the hell we wanted- even trained my sister to be a plumber like him.

I had to fight for everything I ever wanted, but it was due to financial reasons. I never felt any limitations because I happened to be female. In fact, I thought being the only woman in the room or the program gave me an advantage. I had the viewpoint that limitations other women felt were fantasy, and only due to their fear of putting themselves out there and trying.

Then I graduated college and got out into the workforce and felt that glass ceiling HARD. I think at that point I was in utter shock that it actually existed. I was a naive 21 year old.

I used to shun "women only" groups as I felt like they were doing themselves a disservice by crying "female!" like it was a weakness. As I got older I realized there are many common challenges and stigmas we face and it was good to have a "safe" forum to discuss these things openly. I did join Women in SCS at CMU and attend Leadership classes for women, and I benefited immensely from these more focused discussions.

I don't think we're at the "everyone is equal" stage yet. Sexism is alive and well. We aren't living in a label-free world, but I do think we can choose which labels to self-identify with. I used to shun "woman", now I embrace it.

As a side note, being in Germany for the last 6 weeks has made me realize how far we've come in the states. Do you realize there are "women only" parking places here (frauparkplatz)- near the door like disabled spots? What kind of message does that send?

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Rick Calvert — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:14:02 -0000

Great post Whitney and great conversation in the comments.

I wish Jory, Elisa, and Lisa the founders of BlogHer would weigh in here. Maybe they have somewhere else and I can't find it?

Speaking as a white man, a blogger, and a blogging conference organizer ( I am the founder and CEO of BlogWorld & New Media Expo) I found BlogHer to be fantastic!

It felt to me like community of bloggers who just happened to be women and that it had grown organically. This was a group of people who had a lot in common, had built strong relationships online and wanted to get together in person.

Jory, Elisa and Lisa saw the need for that face to face connection and the business opportunity and created a great event that as an outsider looking in seemed to fill that need quite well.

We have "community tracks" at BlogWorld as well. Not by gender or race but by topic. We have tracks for sports bloggers, political bloggers, milbloggers and godbloggers. This year a group of real estate bloggers has organized a track. Communities are great no matter what their common interest/s may be.

Make no mistake BlogHer is a business. Sponsors like GM, Michelin, Intuit, HP, and Nintendo are evidence of that. To them the demographic represented at BlogHer is a very important one and their attendees influence buying decisions. I see nothing wrong with that either.

Yes they discussed female specific issues, most of the attendees were women probably 90%+ but I never felt intimidated or uncomfortable being there.

I did take my leave from the closing party at Macys when they moved to the Lingerie dept. But more than anything a "shopping party" just doesn't do it for me as a guy.

I think you nailed it on your response to Stephanie; Whitney, Women like her, and generations before her have made it possible for you to feel exactly the way you do and that is a testament to their hard work and sacrifice.

Two BlogHer stories to close. Opening night during a party at the hotel I had to visit the rest room. I walked past the ladies room and entered the next one. I realized when I came out, it had been converted to a ladies room as well during the conference. Thankfully no one else was using it at the time.

Someone I know attended one of the sessions where the topic was black female bloggers. One of the panelists stated at the beginning of the talk that if you weren't black, or a woman you might want to leave the room.

/ramble off

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Mark Drapeau — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:04:22 -0000

The qualifier always hurts the cause.

Be awesome, and people will see you as awesome. I cringe when I hear about the "first black astronaut" or "first female CEO" or "first hispanic Rhodes Scholar". It is awesome enough just to be an astronaut, CEO, or Rhodes Scholar!!

If one wants to blog about women's issues, or how women fit into the workplace, or motherhood - great. All legit topics. But just do it as a person, not as a woman. Semantics - But everyone outside the qualifier judges it differently.

I read this morning that an article about BlogHer was in a newspaper's Fashion section. That might say it all. Appearance is the connotation of society.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

regularg0nz0 — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:51:15 -0000

"Some people find qualifiers to also be the building blocks of community, and I don’t find that limiting."

Qualifiers are, indeed, perfectly described as building blocks. But... communities aren't built with blocks, they're built with relationships. Now, walls, on the other hand... blocks are perfect for building those. And walls only serve to separate people, not bring them together.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Colleen Stone — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:53:45 -0000

Me, I'm more bothered by the use of "woman" as a modifier.

Man blogger. Sounds funny, yes?

Then why is woman blogger OK?

Female! Male!

Alas, for some reason, woman is the accepted usage. And William Saffire won't even back a sister up.

Anyway, BlogHer...well-intentioned but misguided, in my humble female opinion.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Lois Whitman — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:02:36 -0000

I gave birth to Whitney. She was conceived on Halloween 1981. Her father was wearing my wedding gown from my first marriage. Maybe that explains this gender piece.

We love you Whitney

Mom and Dad

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

whitney — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:46:59 -0000

Wow, so many amazing comments. I don't know where to begin! Thank you all so much for putting your honest thoughts and varying opinions here. It means so much to me to have an open and respectful dialogue about this topic, any topic. Thank you for taking the time to contribute.

Forgive me if I don't respond to everyone's post individually.

Many of you talked about how individuals with a shared identity can come together to form a community. I agree, and I have no objection to these "factions," as Matt put it, coming together to strategize how to become stronger, overcome obstacles, and have greater fulfillment. I think that is wonderful, and I'm glad that BlogHer is providing that for people.

I, personally, have never been much of a joiner. Aside from memberships to professional associations, I have never "belonged" to anything. I never had an interest in joining a sorority, never belonged to Hillel or Women@SCS. Instead I wrote for the school paper, raised money for the alumni association and volunteered at a needle exchange program. I also had three part-time jobs: wrote a weekly arts column for City Paper (the free alternative newsweekly), did tech support for the Media department, and designed Flash apps for an online course. For me, my identity has always been based on what I do and not what I was born into.

Both Stephanie and Nate used the term "mommy bloggers," and I'm glad that they did. The subject of my blog is my career, the subject of some other blogs is parenting. I can't wait to be a mom someday, but until then, I have nothing in common with these people. My career trajectory is quite different than theirs, and while I'm sure we can connect on a very intimate level on what it means to be a woman, and the career choices one has to make, and the fears associated with being a mother -- all of this has zero to do with my blog. So why lump me in the same category of "woman bloggers" as you would them?

Steph, both here in your comments and on Twitter, you said that you worry for my generation and that what I wrote made you really sad to read. I think you're off base here. What your generation and my mother's generation of women have done for me is created a world in which I can choose not to self-identify as a woman in the field, but rather as a person. That is a huge accomplishment! I deeply respect the women who have walked before me and I thank them for the bottom of my heart for enabling me to not feel like I have to measure myself against other women. THANK YOU!

Jonathan made the point about BlogHim, and Steph said that that's just every other tech conference. That has not been my experience. There are a lot of women in UX, and I'm lucky to be in their company. Sure, more men than women are submitting themselves to speak at our conferences, and we're taking the steps to rectify that. But our presence is there, and it's very much felt.

The only conference I've ever attended that was entirely male was Microsoft's reMIX conference in Cambridge last October. In fact I was one of ~5 women in a room of 600, but let me tell you, I didn't mind it one bit.

Maxine, Meg and Melissa all make the point that some people, not just women, need more encouragement than others. I'm thrilled that organizations exist that can provide it. But me, I've always been pretty self-motivated. As long as I have the support of my friends and family, I go full steam ahead and I don't let anything stop me.

Yes, maybe, as Shelley put it, I'm an idealist. Or maybe I'm just lucky enough to have a background that protected me from what other women have experienced. Or maybe I'm just stubborn. Whatever the case may be, I'm proud of who I am and what I've accomplished. I feel strongest as an individual and prefer to stay away from labels (even my job description doesn't fit). Definition isn't a necessary part of my life. Some people like structure and routine. I don't. No one should feel sorry for being one way or another. I don't feel sorry for the women bloggers out there. I'm just not one of them.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Kieran — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:18:06 -0000

The foundation of social interaction online has been about anonymity - identities are only revealed if we so choose. If a blogger chooses to disclose their race, sex, location, etc that is up for them to decide. If who we are defines what we write isn't creativity lost?

For me, the beauty of the web has always been about the lack of identity and the focus on content. Good content always speaks for itself - it is found, shared and consumed based on what was written not any sort of defining characteristics.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Liz99 — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:52:02 -0000

I'm a woman, white, mixed-European ancestry, middle-class background, college-educated...all of those demographic characteristics influence how I've experienced life, how people interact with me and so influence the content of my blog.

YOU are not the label (there is too much diversity among any category) but there is no such thing as an objective, bias-free point of view. No one voice represents the views and interests of any community, there is no "woman's point of view" any more than there is a "man's point of view" or a "white point of view".

Labels suck but they do reflect the categories that strangers put us into. Once people get to know you as an individual, you transcend the demographic categories you are a member of and become unique and dimensional. But to those who don't know us, we are, to them, what they judge us to be based on our exterior, our words and behavior. Unless you can completely erase your gender, it will be an influence in how you act and how others view you. No one is uninfluenced by gender any more than anyone is aracial.

I'm not saying that what I'm arguing against is the point of view you present in your blog entry, you just raised some challenging questions that have been part of an ongoing debate in gender studies.

Labels ARE artificial constructs but that doesn't stop the most people from ascribing labels to other people and treating them based on those labels.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Danielle — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:18:24 -0000

Beautiful, well thought out and well put together. I couldn't agree more!

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Russ — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:08:32 -0000

Ahhh... love the topic.

Way back in the day ("the day" being the late 90s and early oughts), I got to speak at a local Web Grrls meeting on "Flash & Usability".

Funny thing, too...

I had the worst time getting onto their mailing list, to participate in discussions, even though they had no charter that strictly forbade such a thing.

I never understood why, with the exception of my obvious front-view differences, that it would matter, when I wholly supported their initiatives.

See, I'm okay with "BlogHer" and "WebGrrls" and "Gay Pride" and whatever else you want to throw out there.

Those labels are important to the people who need them and they're also helping people who may have been / were / are in some sort of minority status (and the status of who / what, etc. that are in minority status these days... blech) and when I throw on my IA hat, well, I'd probably search for something like...

Women Bloggers
Women on the Web
etc.

I don't know the realities, and frankly, I'm not going to go look them up--but there does seem to be a difference between the number of men and women in the field.

I could be off on that. Maybe it's my (mis)perception.

But there are a ton of "women/minority-owned business" organizations out there and the events I've been to seem to be a little dude-heavy, so you know...

Just saying.

I'm okay with the label--and I'm okay with you not being okay with it.

Some people look for such groups and some people choose a path differently.

Both types of people are cool in my book and I'm glad that both types are able to find something that fits.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Melissa — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:23:49 -0000

There are good, logical arguments to both sides here. However, I personally lean more towards Stephanie's side; not because I feel like blogging and social media need a feminist push, but because I feel that girls and young women need excellent mentors and role models. That's part of my impetus behind doing Girls Gone Geek.

I grew up with almost exclusively guy friends, and male teachers in the subjects I enjoyed the most (languages, sciences, and engineering). I don't feel like I've suffered as a result of that; however I also know through outreach programs I've been involved with many girls and young women get intimidated by male dominated areas, such as tech and science. So I feel having a conference such as BlogHer allows for the girls and young women of the world to see that is possible to succeed in blogging and on the internet and in social media and be female, that it's not a male-dominated world. And hopefully, a majority of those women at BlogHer are/will be excellent mentors to those that need them.

Thank you for the thought-provoking post, Whitney!

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Meg — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:56:42 -0000

Thanks for this post, Whitney. I love your honesty and the clear, engaging way you write.

It's an interesting post to read as someone who (like you) never had any limits placed on her access to learning or work... all the possibilities were there. I had to hustle for it, sure (my family wasn't able to help out, though they believed in my ability to do anything I wanted), but it was there for the taking.

On the other hand, I also know a lot of women (including my contemporaries, mentors I've had, and young women I've mentored) who didn't have the same kind of access, either because of cultural traditions, economic restrictions, or the fallout from difficult relationships in their lives.

I guess I was never placed in a situation where I needed to connect with other women specifically for support or comfort or a leg up -- I just had great friends of both sexes, and we had our community and our fun and grew up together.

When I started blogging, I also wasn't part of a particularly female community -- I was blogging at Salon, and we had both sexes writing up a storm. Everyone likely would have designated themselves a feminist, but equality was just a given.

But on the other hand, I could also see women popping up across the blogosphere (apologies for using that word) who had never had the opportunity to speak honestly about their lives. Women who had never had solid community and the support of female (or male) friends and colleagues in following their dreams and establishing their careers. Women who were raising families or setting up lives with little or no "village" around them.

Having a public forum was revolutionary for them.

I think something like BlogHer appeals to me because I see how exciting and motivating it is for so, so many women. I think it might not seem integral to me, because I'm aiming my own career at a publishing world that may or may not care about my gender... but mostly cares about my ability to write stuff that sells.

But I think if I wasn't blessed with fantastic friends and supportive parents, or if I had a career that had a specifically female audience or demographic , or if I'd ever had to crack my head on a ceiling, I'd find it pretty damn irresistible to be there.

I love that it is such an encouraging experience for the women that go -- and that's why, even though I always just think of myself as a blogger and not a BlogHer, I'm intrigued.

The speakers and attendees are some of the smartest, strongest women running around out there, and I'm sure I'd be humbled to learn from them and spend time in their midst. They've created and achieved things I've never even approached in my own work.

So I might head there in 2009. Along with lots of other conferences. One more perspective and dose of inspiration couldn't possibly hurt.

Re: I Am Not A Woman Blogger

Shelley Greenberg — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:18:41 -0000

Hi Whitney,

First of all, thank you, for a great, well-written, thought-provoking post. I'm sorry I'm late to the party... been meaning to read this for days but am just getting around to it now.

When I first read your post, I agreed with you completely. I did a lot of thinking in college about "equality," especially in the many African American literature courses I sought out. I have always been of the school of thought that believes that the only true form of equality is when what you call "qualifiers" - sex, age, race, religion - fall away, and people are judged on their merits and skills, rather than their qualifier.

But Steph Agresta's comment (also very well-put, by the way), really brought home the other side of the argument for me, which is that you can't separate qualifier from "qualifyee." These things are part of who we are, and what's more, they allow us to build communities around shared values and interests. And the fact is, some groups remain discriminated against for their qualifier, and organizing communities around those qualifiers helps offset those discriminations.

So you see, I'm torn. Your view seems like the optimist/idealist's view. Steph's seems like the realist's view. At it's heart, this argument is very similar to the affirmative action debate.

In the end, I don't think there is one right answer. You're both right. But maybe the middle ground is to embrace our qualifiers, while not letting them define us or say anything of our value as bloggers--or as people. And I think you did touch on that in your post.

Thank you again. And I hope to meet in person very soon!

Much love,
Shelley